[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Moneysense. I'm Julie Ellen Becker, president of Ellenbecker Investment Group. EIG believes in the importance of education, allowing people to gain the knowledge to feel confident in their personal decisions. This show highlights the unique financial perspectives of its many guests, including economists, attorneys, book authors, business owners and tax professionals. It is provided for general information purposes only and does not consider your particular investment objectives or or financial situation and is not intended as recommendations appropriate for you. Before acting on information on this show, strongly consider seeking advice from your own financial advisor. The opinions expressed on Moneysense do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Ellen Becker Investment Group employees and leaders. Please enjoy today's show.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Moneysense is brought to you by Ellen Becker Investment Group four time recipient of the Better Business Bureau Torch Award for Business Ethics and Integrity. Ellen Becker Investment Group is the only Wisconsin investment company to receive this prestigious award more than once by providing exceptional planning and extraordinary service each and every day. Go to ellenbecker.com and listen to Moneysense Saturdays at two and Sundays at noon.
[00:01:13] Speaker C: Welcome to Moneysense. I'm Karen Ellen Becker, founder and senior wealth advisor for the Ellenbecher Investment Group and I as you know, we're located in Pewaukee, just north of I 94 between 164 at Highway F and Ridgeview Corporate park. We're also in the village of Whitefish Bay, right in the corner. We're kitty corner from the bank building and we're across from winkies and everybody knows where winkies are and has been there. I can remember going there as a kid. That's how scary it is.
We also service our clients in Bonita Springs, Florida. Really would love to have you put a face with a voice. So you can go to ellenbecker.com for more information about EIG and of course, about me.
Today is a wonderful day. As many of you know that I have been doing the radio show for now about 36 years almost, and it's really about education. And I always think if there's something that I'm curious about and something that I don't always know the details about, there's probably a lot of you out there that are thinking the exact same thing. My guest today is Karen Hung. She is the founder and CEO of Silver Rock Consulting. Many of you know that several years ago I started a 513 C pillows with wings, and it's a very personal project that I won't go into today, but stay tuned because I will in the near future. But Karen was someone that I accidentally actually met at a breakfast and we started talking and I mentioned about my nonprofit, and she asked me, do you have a board? Do you have a business plan? And I said, I really need one.
And, you know, sometimes you don't know what you don't know. And so Karen met with me and did some planning with me and a group of about ten different people that are really interested in pillow with wings. And we together created a strategic plan. And I want to say the importance of it, that it was together, this was something that we ferreted out on two or three different times together for several hours in the afternoon. It was very, it was very revealing as to the things that were important to build a sustainable charity. And she helped us create four different pillars.
Those pillars were making sure, since we wanted to be someone who was providing academic information to our, to the children that we were serving, we needed to really make sure that we had research and that it was evidence based. We wanted to make sure that our learning platform had great contact content and capabilities. We wanted to know who were we going to distribute this to and what would that look like. And then, of course, thought leadership, because we were looking at hopefully one day, making this a global movement. And so when we started to put all this together, she gave me some action plans and things to do. And we've really done so much of that. We've done our vision, we've created fundraising activities. We've looked at our pricing and our revenue, our budget, of course, how we're going to implement this. We looked at staffing, because we certainly want to write staff. We looked at research and what type of advertisement, and then there was another one there that said, build board, strategically strategy board or board of advisors? And there I stopped again and I said, okay, what is that really mean? And how important is it? Is it something. I have an advisory board. Do I really need a board? What would that actually look like? And so I've asked Karen if she would come today and be on the radio and share the importance of that board, because, granted, I'm looking at a 513, which is different than a corporate board, but I also have a corporation. I have a business. And many of you out there are thinking that I have a board. Do I need a board? Should I serve on a board? What liabilities might there be for a board? If I'm looking for a new job, can I, you know, determine anything by looking at who's sitting on that board of that corporation? So, really, there is so much more to know. We're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, I'm going to let Karen hit the floor and give us a lot of great information.
Welcome to Moneysense. I'm Karen Ellen Becker, founder and senior wealth advisor for the Ellen Becker Investment Group. My guest today is Karen Hung, and she is the founder and CEO of Silver Rock Consulting. I have gotten to know her so well. She has been so valuable in helping me create the charity that I want, the charity that I hope will want to be sustainable and to put in the pillars that we need to do that. And one of them is board development. And so, Karen, I'm just going to let you explain to us the importance of a board, some of the things that we can learn by looking at a board and the steps that one needs to take.
[00:06:37] Speaker D: Great. Thanks so much, Karen, for having me.
It's been a pleasure working with you and going side by side. And I would say today the conversation we're going to have will have a broad reaching effect to your large audience. So this is for both commercial, for profit, as well as for nonprofit purposes. And as you talked about, you know, when do you think about a board?
Well, when you think about a board is a time where the board needs to be in solid footing already.
And the example I'll give you is, how many times do you read a headline and something happens with an organization and they may have changed the senior leadership, they may have ousted the CEO, and they may have been, they may be facing some market turmoil.
And then what's the question people ask? Where was the board? Where was the board? Well, hopefully, the board is in good stead and established before then. So, you know, let's go back to your question at the beginning, which is, what is the importance of a board?
You know, my firm at Silver Rock, we have done a fair amount of research on boards. And then I personally have over 20 years of experience of serving on a range of different kinds of boards, from both for profit to nonprofit.
As we think about a board, the fundamental piece that's table stakes is to ensure good governance. Good governance. And what that means is who's holding the senior executives accountable? Who's providing fiduciary oversight, who's making sure that the things are done well and done right? And in fact, I'll give you a quick little story. I was meeting with the CEO recently of a fairly major healthcare system, and I talked about the board being accountable for helping to shape the moral compass of an organization.
And we had a little bit of a debate, and he said, well, I expect my executive team to be doing that. I would say yes and yes, and because the executive team is there to ensure that things are done well and right and good, but also the board, because the board is there from an oversight standpoint. So that's one of the fundamentals of a board, is to ensure governance. But on top of that, Karen, there's such an opportunity for the board to be a strategic asset for an organization. So let's break that down a little bit. For somebody who may be investing, they want to make sure that not only the products and services are relevant, but also the leadership is in good place, and then the oversight is in a strong place. For someone who's looking for a job, like you were mentioning, you want to make sure the culture is right, the job fit is right, the growth trajectory is right. But also, what's the leadership going to be like? Or what is it? What is the culture, the ethos? And then also what's the board like? So I think those are the kinds of things that the board actually has tremendous influence or can have tremendous influence and impact on the organization. The transformation and growth. Sometimes it's not always overt to the marketplace. It may not be overt to the constituents. So that's where I would start in terms of thinking about boards, and the importance of boards is the boards actually play a very vital role.
[00:10:10] Speaker C: Do you know, Karen, I'm new to this whole arena of nonprofits.
And working there, I mean, it was something that I wrote checks for, but I never really had the opportunity to get involved. And so this whole nonprofit world is really very different for me. So I've been trying to talk to as many people as I can, and, you know, there's a lot of noise out there. There's a lot of people who have different opinions. And so I've been asking about boards, and I get someone that will say, well, only have people on your board who can introduce you to people to raise money.
Most people on boards have more money than time. And then I'll talk to somebody and they'll say, you want to have a working board? You want a board who is very specific to what you were just talking about, who is going to really be your moral compass and who is going to be there to be more of a sounding board and to help you. When I think about, for me, I mean, do I go global? What do I do?
You know, the other thing is nobody wants anybody to change their baby's clothes.
And I remember when Julie took over my company, it was like, this is my baby. This is my baby. Then you get people that say, don't give up control. Don't give up control.
What about that?
[00:11:35] Speaker D: Wow. There's so much to unpack with what you just said.
And, you know, there are times when you get a designer to help you dress your baby, to make your baby look even better, or to keep your.
[00:11:47] Speaker C: Values, as I think what people want is keep my baby's clothes, keep the values, but build out the wardrobe.
[00:11:53] Speaker D: That's right. That's right. Well, let's talk about the wardrobe a little bit. Right. And one of the pieces that I would say is where a board starts and what I really firmly believe in and what my firm works towards is what's the vision? Now, it's really unusual question because most people don't stop to think about the board having a vision for themselves. And I think it's a little provocative because a board kind of may come together. You know, the board meets at a certain frequency. They come together to ensure there's governance and bylaws, but those are kind of the table stakes, as I said. But when you think about having a vision, like, to what? I'd love to coin this. To what end would a board, and does a board need to serve the organization and having a vision around that so that they can be their best and having their biggest impact and helping transform the organization as the organization grows? You know, oftentimes I'll work with boards and they'll say, I'll hear from the executive team, well, the board's not fully tracking with us, and that becomes a hindrance and an obstacle. Right. Because the board may or may not be making guidance decisions and providing guidance along the right trajectory. So the first thing I would say is, what's the vision of the board? Let's be provocative around that. What is the vision of a board? Not just what's the vision of the company or the nonprofit, but what's the vision of the board? And is it, what purpose and function does it serve? Can it be, or maybe it could be a working board. It could be an oversight governance board. It could be certainly a fiduciary board. Right. To ensure the resources are allocated and spent wisely from a good stewardship standpoint. So that's where one piece that I would strongly advocate, the second piece is around, you know, how does the board have its optimal impact? And we really believe in the board as a strategic asset. A lot of times, people don't think of the board as a strategic asset. And so I just wanted to sit here and challenge that thinking. It's like you've got some phenomenal. Generally, the people who are invited onto boards of their own right are very accomplished individual, but how do you transform them, the board, from a group of high performing individuals into more of a high performing team? And when that magic happens, the board can become a tremendous strategic asset for whatever the vision is of the organization, the vision of the board is to accomplish. So in your case, with pillows, your board is there to help you see into the future, to think about social learning, to help you with ensuring the fundraising, the means for a for profit. It's to ensure growth. Are we making, as an example, the right acquisitions? Are we thinking about setting the right culture? Are we thinking about the right expansion plans? Right. All those can be applied towards the organization. So vision transformation, the board as a strategic asset and the board as a high performing entity.
[00:15:06] Speaker C: That's so interesting because so more noise out there. A lot of people I've talked to who have boards have said, oh, I got so many people on my board and they just don't contribute anything. And I don't know how to get rid of them. And it's not that I want to get rid of them, but I need people to help me to see into the future what you're saying. And they're just there. And I love the idea that what you're talking about is to make sure that they have a vision for themselves, will keep them interested and keeps them interested. And we know what that's like. When we've all been part of a team and you do all the work, it gets old and you lose your own vision in some cases.
[00:15:49] Speaker D: Right, right. That's so true. That's so true. Because, you know, without a vision, people perish. Right. The Bible talks about that and it's so true. And we all want to be part of something bigger than ourselves. So it can be very inspirational, very aspirational, and the board should be part of that and serve part of that function. I want to share a really interesting data point. You know, at Silver Rock, we did research, as I mentioned, for over a year, both primary and secondary, as we're thinking about the board.
And we found a trend from Price waterhouseCoopers.
I think it was around 2001. And two years later, we looked at that trend again. They surveyed over 500 to 600 CEO's, mainly in public sectors, around what the CEO's perspective is on the board. And over 70% rated board performance is fair to poor.
Fair to poor.
We looked at that data and two years later, we looked at it recently and didn't see too much of a change. And we looked at that data and thought, wow, what an opportunity space. What an opportunity space to elevate the game. How do we elevate the game of the board so that they help elevate the game of the company or the organization? And if you're looking to invest, if you're looking to be employed, if you're looking to learn, if you're looking to participate, all these pieces are relevant to you because you can think about how do I elevate the game personally and how do I become part of an entity? The board is an entity to elevate the game of the organization.
[00:17:26] Speaker C: My guest today is Karen Hung. She is the founder and CEO of Silver Rock Consulting. I have worked with her. I've worked with her team, Scott, and it was profound.
It launched me. And one of the things that she did say to me is, I want to make sure that you use this plan, that you don't put it on a shelf.
[00:17:46] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:17:46] Speaker C: And the reason that it was important that she said that was because I could see how invested she was in helping me be successful. It wasn't a job. It wasn't an opportunity to make some bucks. It was more than that. It was to help us be successful. And, you know, those are the kind of partners we want in our life, the ones that can embrace our vision. And she certainly did that. If you would like to reach out to Karen, you can do
[email protected]. and with that, we'll be right back.
Welcome to MoneySense. I'm Karen Ellen Becker, founder and senior wealth advisor for the Ellen Becker investment group. My guest today is Karen Hung. She is the founder and CEO of Silver Rock Consulting. I have worked with her with my own nonprofit, my own 513 C pillows with wings. And it has just been a fantastic experience. And what I did really, truly realize is how much I didn't know. I thought that starting my 513 C would be almost exactly like building my company. And there are some similarities, but there are some real differences, too. And sometimes, like I said earlier, you just don't even know what you need to know. And so Karen has been just a wonderful partner and helped me to figure out some of the things that I needed to do. And one of those is to build a board strategically. A strategy board or a board of advisors is really critical and crucial to a successful company. And so when I started thinking about Karen aboard, it was like, do I have all my family on the board? Do I have my friends who support me do. Can I go and talk to people that I don't even really know and solicit boards?
I wanted to make sure that I had a board that was very diverse.
How do you approach the board? And I would guess, I'd even say if we could talk about, you have a board, but how many of those board members do you still want on the bus? Right.
What do you do?
[00:20:08] Speaker D: Well, what you do first is decide where the bus is going. Decide where the bus is going. Right. And so that should inform what kind of board and who you have on the board. Right. We talked earlier about the board having a vision as a support and a strategic asset to the entity. So if you think about pillows, but this is true for any board, right, from a commercial or nonprofit or even an NGO entity. But just even there, Karen, as you think about pillows, what will help you the most? Right. And so there are going to be folks on there in terms of your composition, who will be more short term thinking and also more long term thinking and some mid tier thinking. So I would invite all your listeners as you might be thinking about boards, whether you're on a board, you might be interested in board, or you're curious about boards. In terms of board formation, there is this composition around not only the experience base, but also the point of view. And I really believe in the mindset around the different board members that you bring in together and to really think about the board as a team. So let me give you a couple examples. Right. So in your particular case, and for any of the listeners out there, if you're looking in, if you're a business owner or whatever, you may, whatever role you may play in some kind of board formation, may want to think about what's kind of the long view that I need to have. Do I need to think about an exit strategy at some point? So if that's the case, you probably want some folks with that type of experience as well as the wherewithal to have the risk tolerance, right. If you're looking to create a very sustainable and I would say stable entity, then, you know, you would look for folks with that type of profile as well. Now, in addition to that, you would want to think about the different kinds of skill sets and experience spaces that may be helpful to your, that's relevant to your vertical. And by vertical, I mean, in your case it's education, but somebody might be in aerospace, somebody else might be in healthcare, right? How much of additional knowledge do you have? Or do you have a resident in the organization and you might need an executive functioning overview oversight. Right. So you might need a CEO or you might need some more legal advice or certainly tech, right. With cyber today with AI and cyber. So it's just that combination of both tangible skill sets, hardcore experience base, as well as the wherewithal and the character of that individual to all come together and bring that to bear.
[00:22:54] Speaker C: What does it mean? I hear people say you must have a diverse board or a contributing board or non contributing board, right.
[00:23:03] Speaker D: Well, you know, diversity in this day and age has such a broad reaching definition. And I would say for you, for anyone listening as you think about diversity is really to consider what does diversity mean for you and what would be advantageous to your organization and how you think about and define diversity. So I think there's a number of ways to think about diversity, which does include a worldview. It does include perspective, it does include experience space, it does include, you know, with that are some of the things that people may list as diverse as diversity elements because of that. Right. So that's where I would kind of leave that conversation from a diversity standpoint. And I do believe you can have a very aligned board with different, very different perspectives.
The other piece I want to come back to, Karen, is something you said a little bit ago. It may have been early in our segment, but around the experience you had with us and a couple things. One is that you were part of this, and we are very big believers in co creation from a human centered design. And why is that? It's because we all bring in value and how do we leverage that collective brain trust. And so as we worked with you, you experienced that. And I want to just say to your listeners, as you think about boards and your organizations, is to think about how do you leverage your collective brain trust. And so that kind of comes back to your diversity questions, as well as your early comment of how do you really value and are you able to leverage the value that everyone can bring to the table?
[00:24:55] Speaker C: I think that some of the things that I've been hearing also, as I've just been asking people and inquiring, is that it is really important not to have just your friends and your family on the board. So for me, I'm looking to do grants, and they want to make sure that my budget's in alignment. They want to make sure that I have a strong board, truly an executive director. You and I talked about having an executive director, and the board is really there to look at the president, right? Look at the executive director. And if it's not working to fire him.
I mean, some would have told me the job of that president of that board is to fire you.
And I went, whoa, if warranted, right? Yes.
[00:25:46] Speaker D: Or to fire you or to encourage you. Right. To also hire you. And, well, it's kind of interesting, right. Because you get hired every day, don't you? Right. With the opportunity to walk in the door and do what you love and do what you can to be your best, right. To make the world a better place in whatever sphere of influence. And I would say to that about friends and family, it might be okay as a starting point, but here's where I would challenge that paradigm pretty hard. I want to put out there to your listeners this thought of courageous leadership.
[00:26:22] Speaker C: Right?
[00:26:22] Speaker D: We talked about moral. You know, I brought up moral compass early on about the board, but I also want to bring up this concept about courageous leadership. And when you're talking about a board having the spine to stand up for what it believes in with conviction and not to be a rubber stamp board, that's what you want to. So the concern when people talk about friends and family, that's what that could be. That's really what it's insinating. Right? You want somebody to be able to tell you and speak truth to power, like, Karen, this isn't working well, right. Or this is working well. So that's. Those are some important aspects of a board, is a board that will have courageous leadership, will speak truth to power, will have conviction around right things, and to come alongside, alongside of the executive team and other stakeholders, because you may have investors. Right. You may have another body that you're responsible for, whether it's a private equity firm or, you know, certainly if you're a publicly traded company, right. All these kinds of stakeholders, like, how do you think about being courageous and having conviction, especially in the face of turbulent times or hard decisions?
So that's where I would say to you, in terms of friends and family, the board needs to have courageous leadership.
[00:27:45] Speaker C: So let's talk about corralling cats.
So I was on a board recently that I bet we had 25 or 30 members of that board, and we were all committed to a $5,000 commitment, which really gave them a certain amount of money that they could count on every year that was coming out as well.
But I don't know that when I was on that board, I sort of felt like I did almost have a voice because there's so many people.
Sometimes I felt like maybe I was just taking up a chair. But on the other hand, it is a nice commitment. And those are mostly public companies in a city. Well, not really. That was a nonprofit as well. But I'm wondering if there is any rule of thumb, or people have told me have five people or seven, always make sure it's an odd number.
Is there any kind of thought around the size? And of course, my organization is very small. You have organizations that are managing millions and millions of dollars, which I would guess would be different. But what is a rule of thumb if there is such a thing?
[00:28:56] Speaker D: Well, for boards, there really isn't necessarily a rule of thumb, but I would just say some guidelines. As far as board formation, the odd number is helpful.
You also want to make sure you have independent directors who have as much voice and stake in the decision making and the strategic direction, because if they don't, then it becomes very much. It's not even friends and family. Right. You don't have an objective point of view. If it is a nonprofit, I would say think about the purpose. And again, it goes back to the vision of the board. Right. If it's a fundraising board, you may want a larger circle, but whenever you get to the point where people can hide.
Right. And just have it as a resume builder, that may be where you want to do some editing and think about kind of what's the right number? And I've sat on boards that are, you know, anywhere from five to seven to 40 and 40 plus. And I would say usually that you do want to make sure it's just functioning well. So beyond any number, I would say make sure it's just functioning well and not unwieldy. And where's your kind of center of gravity in that board, in terms of who are the board leaders? Not just the chair, but the board leaders, the board officers, the executive committee, and then committee chairs and committee leaders who are really driving kind of the direction of the board, which also will influence the direction of the organization.
[00:30:32] Speaker C: Let's talk about.
Well, first of all, I think of that's a full time job as being a president of a board with 40 people, because, really, that president needs to be seen checking that everything's being done, that the committees are working. So that's a big job. But one of the things I've been looking at, Karen, is the board commitment form, putting together a form as to what do you want to be committed to. And so for me, I've put down participation. I'm looking for a two year commitment to come to those meetings, to participate in an event, to help me as the founder to meet key community leaders and organizations that they might have to help introduce me to their circle of influence and to actively participate and engage in board meetings, as well as follow through with tasks with the organization. Then I'm looking at a financial commitment and also in kind services. And then for me, I have a statement of faith on mine. And by signing that statement of faith, which I really love, because I wasn't exactly sure, but I love the idea that you had said to all have that same vision and to keep them interested. And so for me, I do want people who are faith based on my board and then to have them sign that.
Is there anything else that people need? I've been on boards where I've never signed a board commitment. Is that a value? It is a valuable tool.
[00:32:12] Speaker D: I know it absolutely is a valuable tool in terms of board expectations. Right. So, broadly speaking, board clear board expectations are extremely important and clarity around the different roles. Now, in some, it may seem pretty obvious, but I really believe that having the clarity is very, very valuable. So, for example, you might be chair of a certain committee, right? Chair of governance is usually, governance committees are usually some of the most important committees in any board, regardless of construct.
Right. And having a chair of that governance committee is also important. And if I think about a governance.
[00:32:52] Speaker C: Committee, can you identify that for people so that they. Yeah.
[00:32:55] Speaker D: Yeah. So what's the responsibility of a governance committee? Right. Is the governance committee is there to ensure the right constitution, if you will, right. The right bylaws.
And that is the bylaws should reflect the vision of the board.
Right. So if you think about the way I kind of think about governance and bylaws is if we think about the founding fathers of the United States, they didn't say, I'm going to write a constitution. They first came together to think about what kind of country are we forming here?
And then therefore, what kind of constitution should we write? So, similar to governance. Right. In terms of bylaws. But the bigger role of the governance in my mind is about the health and well being of the board.
And along with the board chair, it's like, how do we ensure that the board is functioning well?
And so that's kind of a bigger view that I have for governance. And so coming back to your question around board expectations, I would say in leadership capacities and different roles, you know, different officer roles, the board chair, the vice chair, treasurer, secretary, the different board committees, you know, making sure those roles are clear.
The other piece is just a board director, and you were, Karen, talking about board terms. So making sure terms are clear, but also the expectations. What does it really mean to be a member of the board for this particular organization? I'll tell you, in the for profit realm, the board expectations are such that the board members show up. They treat it as a job.
They take it seriously. And I would really invite nonprofit board members to do that as well. Right. So whether you're getting paid or you're in some cases paying to be on the board because of financial contribution, when you occupy that board seat, it does really invoke this responsibility to that organization and the seat you hold.
[00:35:01] Speaker C: My guest today is Karen Hung. She is the founder and CEO of Silver Rock Consulting. They do many, many things other than board development. They help with strategic planning. They step in at the beginning, in the middle. And really, if you are, I think thinking about, we all think of an exit strategy of some sort.
It is very helpful to sit down and understand what you need to do to have a sustainable business, because those are the kinds of things that people look at when they want to step in to a business. They're going to buy your business. Or if you want to sell your business, or even if you're doing what I'm doing, passing it down to the next generation again, you can reach out to
[email protected]. dot welcome to moneysense. I'm Karen, Ellen Becker, the founder and senior wealth advisor for the Ellenbecher Investment Group. Go to ellenbecher.com if you'd like to know more about Ellen Becker Investment Group and the services that we offer and how we feel, very much like Karen does, that when we work with clients, we're really a team working together. And that's what gives us the best result, the long term result, because our goal is to not just work with our clients, but to work with their children and their children. And I know, Karen, you're working with organizations that you've been working with for years, and it truly is a wonderful relationship. And when we sat down and we started looking at the pillars that their organization built for us, our business model and what we were going to do, we have these four pillars, and one of the pillars has the board strategy in there. How does this board strategy work with the rest of the organization? We've got these other pillars, and they all weave into each other. And really what I wanted and what we talked about is I wanted this beautiful tapestry. And, you know, I don't want to chase people to come on board with me. I want to draw them towards me because I have this solid organization and they can see my passion. They can see what I've done with Ellen Becker investment group. So how does this show that?
How does it distinguish us from someone else?
[00:37:30] Speaker D: Well, you know, a board is a competitive advantage. And as I step back, Karen, you know, what we do at Silver Rock is all about growth and transformation. And so we believe boards can be part of that, and creating business models can be part of that. And it's all grounded in a level of research and data, as well as a lot of passion and vision. And so bringing all that together is really important, I think, for us. Like, I think about, you know, where are you courageous to really strike out? And, Karen, you've done that in so many ways, right, in your history of both with Ellen Becker and now with pillows, with wings, I of seeing a need and an opportunity in the marketplace. And that's what we would encourage not only our clients to do, but our boards to do as well, because boards may not always think that way, but it's huge. Like, these are folks with great experiences coming to the table and to help lift up the conversation. And one of the things that I get asked a bit, which is, you know, how is the board, like, how do you see a board functioning well?
And when I think about that, I think about, are you having robust discussions?
Are you having decisions that are aligned with both your culture, your values, your vision?
Are you making choices with conviction and providing the guardrail so that the executives, the leadership, and the rest of the team can run and pursue that?
Are you making sure that you have a balance of board oversight and board line of sight, as well as, you know, making sure there's not board overreach? And I think all those pieces really are important. And to really engage the director in that way, and as a director, to engage that way, but also as an executive to engage that way so that the team knows and has clarity around what's the vision? Are we being courageous? Are we going after the things we believe in? And that happens both at the organizational level as well as the board level.
[00:39:41] Speaker C: What about that president of the board, often maybe the chairman of the board, the owner of the company, just can't let go?
[00:39:51] Speaker D: Well, you know, there's a lot of things that we've worked on in terms of board dynamics and board effectiveness, and a lot of this is around the board culture. And so the way we approach it is through co creation. So everybody's voice matters. And what we try to do, actually, what we try to do in the transformation is honor the past as well as build towards the future. And Karen, it's our namesake. Silver. Rock consulting is about the arc of transformation and growth. Rock is the history, the heritage, the core of what's made you strong. Silver, for it to be a precious metal, has to be transformed. So it's the juxtaposition and tension between what's got you here and what's going to take you further and ahead. So to your question around somebody who can't let go, including the. Maybe the founder or, you know, whatever Gen is running it, it is about an approach that can bring in and build and honor both the past and the future.
[00:40:55] Speaker C: That is really interesting because I think about people that I know and boards that I've been on that started in someone's garage and they grew, and it's hard to grow if you have to change. Change is inevitable. Change is wonderful.
[00:41:13] Speaker D: It is.
[00:41:14] Speaker C: What would we do if we didn't have the change of seasons in Wisconsin?
And you can count on it. Change. But that, I love it. And, you know, I think as an entrepreneur is what I've been called, trying new things and stepping outside the box. And the hardest thing for me in my life has been when people have said to me things like, that's crazy. Why would you ever do that? And I mentioned that to someone not too long ago. I said, if I could only tell you my times, people said I was crazy. He said, crazy people are the ones that get things done.
[00:41:48] Speaker D: That's right. Well, think about innovation. Right. Innovation happens when it hasn't been done yet. Right. And innovation happens when there's a need and innovation happens when there is constrained resources.
I'll never forget my early career, corporate days when I was with GE and I was benchmarking innovation with American Express and PepsiCo, and people would say, karen, why are you talking to people outside of your industry? I was like, that's where you get ideas to challenge the, the paradigms and the boundaries. So I would say, go for it. And it's the, it's the most, it is the most exciting place in space. Like, to, you know, blaze new trails or new trails don't exist. And it can be scary because you don't know what's around the bend, but it can be exhilarating as well.
[00:42:39] Speaker C: You know, they always say what you do in one part of your life, you do in another part of your life. So what is the impact on a corporation? Or what is the impact on a charity, such as I'm putting together as you're building that charity and the perception of your employees and your volunteers, that you really have a strategic plan in place, for one thing. And then within that strategic plan are all of these different pillars, because that's what you do. You have a very broad range of services that you bring to the table. What is the impact for, and of course, for me, donors, right.
[00:43:19] Speaker D: Well, we do have a very broad range, and I would say we do two main things, really, which is around board impact, as we've been talking about. The other piece that we do is around transformational growth, business models. And as far as the impact, one of our board chair recently said to us, a client who worked with us from a few years ago, you have changed the DNA of our place.
So it's not only the tangible plan. So we can actually see different revenue streams, different services being offered, different number financial results, but we're seeing a different mindset. And I would say that's the piece that to me is most exciting.
The shelf life of our work goes way beyond a time bound. So some people who do strategic planning might be doing three or five years. The impact of the work that we have on clients and the people we partner with are seven to ten years plus. And we can see it. And that's the part that's really exciting is changing the mindset and changing the courage, you know, elevating the courage and the conviction of people to make meaningful things matter in a bigger way.
[00:44:31] Speaker C: So for somebody out there listening and saying she's talking right to me, what is the next step?
[00:44:36] Speaker D: Yeah, be happy to have a conversation. You can reach out to
[email protected]. again, that's Karen
[email protected]. dot, we'd love to have a chat with you, want to encourage you and to be a sounding board and think about some practical ways you can move forward as well as some big strategic ways you can move forward.
[00:44:58] Speaker C: My guest today is Karen Hung. She is the founder and CEO of Silver Rock Consulting. You can reach her at Karen
[email protected] and of course, you know, you can always me a call and I can share with you and happy to always share with you my experiences. As you can tell, I've been just amazing because I have her on here talking with you. And as always, I hope that I've made a difference in your personal and financial being. Remember, before we plan, before we advise, before we invest, we always listen. Have a great weekend. Bye.
